This video was banned from being sold at a Church Planting conference in which Mark Driscoll was actually speaking! Many woman along with some men took offence at what was said. However it is more of a challenge to men than an attack on women. What do you think?
Driscoll was originally one of the leading lights in the emerging Church in America but has since distanced himself from them as he believes they have become unbiblical. He has also become more Reformed in his thinking associating himself with the likes of John Piper and co.
Sunday, 26 August 2007
'A Good Soldier' by Mark Driscoll (18)
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14 comments:
Read this as it will answer your question posed on your Blog site. Whether he was given a good hearing or not there are questions which need answered including the one about assessing possible candidates prior to them taking on the role of leader of a planted church. Who assessed Paul or John the Baptist?
http://theresurgence.com/md_blog_2007-04-28_banned_church_planting_video
Carey
I think that Mark is, for the most part, trying to do a good job for the Lord. As one of the comments on his own blog said, we've all heard much worse in some Christian circles. I know that as part of a group who recently started a new venture in inner city Belfast, I briefly looked at the Acts29 network and considered linking in some way with them. At the end of the day we were probably too "vague" about our mission, too casual about funding and certainly not up to the mark in terms of training and theological knowledge. So I didn't even discuss it with the other leaders involved, but we did go ahead anyway. Why? Because God told us to do it.
So, I love listening to Mark and I like his "take no prisoners" approach (to carry on the military theme...) but he doesn't need to be right about everything, does he?
(I realise that doesn't answer the question...)
Anyway, Andrew - great stuff on the blog here. Keep on keeping on.
Carey Thanks for your comments. Regarding assessing candidates it could be said that Jesus chose his twelve disciples after he assessed them. He chose them however despite their faults which according to the gospels were many. One didn’t even make it.
Who assessed Paul? Well Paul was a chosen instrument but despite this he was at the church at Antioch for quite a while( was he being assessed here?) and when he ministered as an Apostle for the first while at least he was under the guidance of Barnabus (possibly being assessed still). As for John the Baptist ,well he seemed to be quite his own man. However, he was the son of the Temple priest who was spoken directly by an angel about his future son John. But you are quite right no Church (which didn't exist then anyway) or Temple or Synagogue discipled or assessed him when he was out as ‘A Voice crying in the Wilderness’. There are always some who though rejected by missionary organizations and churches become successful ministers of Christ
William thanks for your comments. Mark Driscoll is certainly a one off. 'He shoots from the hip'and unless people understand his style they can get hurt. He has little P.C. though if taken the right way his plain speaking can shake up those who are asleep. I'm going to post two video responses to this message. One from a young man who would spend all night on the internet and was challenged to stop, and another from a group of women who clearly show that women throughout the history of the Church have often had more courage and gifting than the men of their time.
I think Mark's video is spot on. He is expounding a passage by Paul encouraging a young man to be a soldier of the gospel. Therefore he is spot on in what he say's. If we are going to win the world with the gospel then we need men who will run with force, endurance, passion, good judgement and real Christ-centred love (as apposed to 'agree with everyone nicey nice cowardly 'love'.')
Also he comes from the view (which I believe is the biblical view) that God has ordained that men should be the overall leaders (elders, overseers) in the Church. [Luke 6:12-16; 1 Tim 2:12-13; Tit 1:6] So of course if he's appealing for church planters, then he going to aim it at the men, for that's his biblical conviction! Which is a conviction he shares with many Christian men AND women!
by the way what do you make of rob bell. i read his book 'velvet elvis' and at first found it an enjoyable read. but on deeper reflection i felt he was undermining scripture by implying it could have multiple meanings, and i also felt he was denying the essense of the gospel - Jesus making atonement for the sins of his poeple by becomming our substitute.
This clip reminded me of a poem found in John Eldredge's book Wild at Heart:
Ballad of the Goodly Fere(Fere means mate):
Ha' we lost the goodliest fere o' all
For the priests and the gallows tree?
Aye lover he was of brawny men,
O'ships and the open sea.
When they came wi' a host to take Our Man
His smile was good to see,
"First let these go!" quo' our Goodly Fere,
"Or I'll see ye damned," says he.
Aye he sent us out through the crossed high spears
And the scorn of his laugh rang free,
"Why took ye not me when I walked about
Alone in the town?" says he.
Oh we drunk his "hale" in the good red wine
When we last made company,
No capon priest was the Goodly Fere
But a man o'men was he.
I ha' seen him drive a hundred men
Wi' a bundle o' cords swung free,
That they took the high and holy house
For their pawn and treasury
I ha' seen him cow a thousand men
On the hills o' Galilee,
They wined as he walked out calm between,
Wi' his eyes like the grey o' the sea,
Like the sea that brooks no voyaging
With the winds unleashed and free,
Like the sea that he cowed at Genseret
Wi' twey words spoke' suddenly.
A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea,
If they think they ha' slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
John , thanks for your comments.Mark Driscoll I imagine would appeal to macho types common in Ulster and equally disliked by those who try to be P.C.and those who don't like to offend anyone.He challenges the men here.It was not easy to be a Christian in the days of Christ as most the disciples were martyred.It is perhaps too easy nowadays to be a Christian.
Are we willing today to suffer and die for Christ.One hymn writer put it:
'Must I be carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease:
When others sought to win the prize and sailed though bloody seas'.
A soldier is after all one who must fight and wage war.The Christian soldier must likewise be be both mentally and spiritually ready for battle.As Paul puts it 'Be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.'
AS regards Rob Bell thanks for your observation.I haven't read the book but my wife and daughter has. I think you may well be right as regards his teaching undermining the Bible.The latest 'hot'preachers and Bible teachers often like to come out with new interpretations or new revelations. WE can read and learn from them as regards insights into the culture we are also trying to reach. But we must beware that they may take us away from the Word of God and Christ. Certainly many postmodern Christians regard the penal substitution theory of the Atonement as totally revolting and a denial of God being a God of love. You might like to see the video a few posts ago by John Piper on the 'Cosmic Child Abuse'teaching of Steve Chalke.
Glad to hear from you again John and wish you God's blessing on you south of the border. We start again at the Fire Station on Monday week. Did you know is getting married in October.
Scott, thanks for the poem. Christ was indeed the greatest Man and the greatest Hero that ever walked the earth.May He,as Paul said 'dwell in our hearts through faith'.
He didn't really acknowledge what women had done in the church at all. I also don't believe that Jesus is ever really portrayed as a hippie, well at least not in Ireland. I think that He is much more often portrayed as a vicious conservative 'warrior' on the side of Bush etc. I think the revolutionary hippie portrayal is more accurate. Jesus was a campaigner, a counter-culture revolutionary not some warrior out to stamp on cultures.
Anonymous: thanks for your comments.Apparently in some places Jesus is portrayed as an effeminate leader. He was gentle and lowly of heart but also wasmanly enough to suffer the pain and agony of the cross. Being a carpenter at that time also meant that he probably used stoneas well as wood in his building work.He also commanded the respect of men such as Peter, Andrew, James and John who would have been rough fishermen and at least once cast the 'Market men' out of the Temple.
Courts. He was a real man by anyone's standard.
Regarding culture it was true he was counter cultural going against the tide of popular opinion.He never, as you imply, took the easy way.
Good stuff uncle Mark.
Jimmy
Nice one, but he lacks a 'little' P.C.
I don't find this offensive to women, but I think it would be culturally offensive in many places outside the US. That said, he is clearly speaking to people in the USA. I appreciate Mark's transparency and boldness. Reminds me of Paul. Is he perfect? By no means. But he is doing a good job of living passionately to see the kingdom come on earth.
My biggest fear for Mark has always been that he would self-destruct, most likely in an attempt to stay cool and relevant. But he has survived many attacks from Satan and people and is still kicking by the grace of God. I have much respect for him.
As far as addressing a vital major issue in the church in America and what needs to be done, he is spot on for the most part in this video.
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